Friday, April 13, 2007

Advised Needed Please

Today, we are going to take a break from our intermittently scheduled rants, snark and little kids stories for some serious discussion in which your advise is needed.

This will be a bit of a reader but please stick with me.....

I was talking to my sister in law on the phone the other night and she has a bit of a conundrum...her son. LOL Okay, not really her son, but her disciplining of said son.

David, (my nephew) is 18 months old and we were talking about disciplining our kids. Now before you all scream and cuss at me...understand I hit my children. I believe in physical discipline. I don't beat the ever living' crap out of them, but I do pop hands when there is touching of items that they shouldn't be touching...but I only hit and pop as a last resort after sufficient warnings - so believe me when I say we talked about it, she's tried it, and it doensn't work.

She needs advise on everyday disciplinary stuff. Stop climbing on that, don't do that etc.

I recommended counting and using her voice as a tool to help show David when he was sinking in ever deepening doo-doo with his mom. She advised that she tried the counting and when she would say "ONE" he would say "TWO" - thinking that mom was teaching him to count.

I personally send my son to bed for a minute. It's a terrible thing for him to be there and he comes out with hugs and kisses and "I SORRY" and says he won't do it again...until the next time.... IE Throwing himself on the floor because he didn't get his way.

Me - Connor, I said no more cookies and I mean what I say.

Connor - *throws self on floor*

Me - Connor, get up.

Connor - *screams and cries*

Me - ONE

Connor - *looks at me crying*

Me - TWO

Connor - *screams no mommy no*

Me - THREE. Then I go pick him up and put him to bed and I set the timer on the microwave for one minute and I then go check on him yada yada yada. We have progressed to the point that all I have to do is ask him if he wants to go Night-Night and he'll straighten up...the key factor here being I always have to be ready to follow thru on my threats of putting him to bed..and he does call me on it from time to time....testing limits.

For Connor, I have found this to be a very effective discipline. Spanking doesn't work with him, and was/is seldom needed with Lauren....

Counting worked great for Lauren, I rarely ever had to physically discipline her. She was so sensitive and people pleasing, all I had to do was look at her and tell her "Little girl, you're getting ready to have a bad day" and that would be that.

The problem here is Marla is at a loss of how to discipline David. He laughs at her if she spanks him...it doesn't bother him to be sent to his room.

The only other thing that I can think of is time out..and he seems to young for that.

What advise can you Moms out there give .... no flogging isn't an option.. Seriously, she needs a hand here. What do you and your friends do? Do you know of any good blogs or websites that deal with this sort of thing?
_____________________________________________

I apologize for being gone for a full week, but I've been looking up some things on the internet and got distracted. NO! IT'S NOT PORN. you sicko.

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21 Comments:

At Friday, April 13, 2007 2:35:00 PM, Blogger Pendullum said...

I have never hit my daughter... But the stair time out method worked like a charm for us...
I do not have any advice but I feel for your Sister in law... as her wee boy may get himself hurt if he does not heed her words... He could run into traffic, he could burn himself... anything if he does not understand and respect her... She must be at witts end...

 
At Friday, April 13, 2007 4:10:00 PM, Blogger Chicky Pea said...

18 months is a really hard age. I'm trying to think back to what I did. I am sure there was a smack in there, here and there. Is there anything he totally loves that she can take away from him when he doesn't listen? The key is find something he totally hates, like having to stay in one spot or something like that and enforcing that when he doesn't listen. I would physically restrain him if I had to, to get the point across. Good luck to her.

 
At Friday, April 13, 2007 6:28:00 PM, Anonymous Annie Drogynous said...

Thankfully, my kids were not ones to throw temper tantrums. I recall my son doing that once and to get him to stop, I threw myself down and mimicked him. Of course it was in the middle of the supermarket and I thought security was gonna' haul my ass outta' there but it shut him up pretty quickly because he was in total shock! My daughter never did it. I don't know how I ever got around that, I just did.

I do know that whenever my kids were misbehaving and/or testing their limits and nothing seemed to work, I put the gates up and they eventually caught on that those gates meant mommy wasn't happy. They did not like to be held back by those gates! I went about my business as if I they weren't even in the room. I found the more I showed them attention when they exhibited unacceptable behavior, the more they'd do it. The less attention I showed them, they seemed to give up and when they'd settle down, I'd ask them if they were done, I didn't ask them to promise me anything because at that age they don't understand what a promise is, I'd remove the gates, hugs were exchanged and I'd explain to them in simple terms why they couldn't do what they did.

I found that timeouts don't work but even so, I don't believe 18 months is too young to at least try them. What I found worked better was taking something away from them that they absolutely loved. A favorite toy or blanket, for instance. Take something like that away for a few minutes or more if need be, and it's the end of the world and they'll do just about anything to get back their beloved!

 
At Friday, April 13, 2007 7:02:00 PM, Anonymous quinn said...

I did daycare for 15 years and I will agree with pendullum...I used the stairs as the time out spot because no matter where you are at home or out at a store , a park .there is always a stair or a curb thing..

( oh and by the way my daycare kids were aged 1 - 4 only) and I did this with all of them....


When someone was doing something not allowed...I said ..Name...do not do that again or you will have a time out on the steps..do you understand ? ( making eye contact before I started to speak to be sure that they hear me).
Then we resume. If said child does it again. there is no second warning ...,...the key here..I calmly yet firmly go to the child take them gently by the arm and lead them to the time out spot and say you were told no and you were told if you did you go here. Now you are here for ( 1 year old 1 minute, 2 year old 2 min..etc.)..and then you can get off.
We all resume play child is not paid any attention to..
When time out is finished..I say come on off and lets play.
I never ever..rehashed or discussed the issues of what was done etc...If the child decided to try again ..they just got same result...

It WORKS...!!!!!!!!!!!

And the fact that you dont harp on it or nag them shows them..you mean business but that you dont hold a grudge etc...
I had great success with it and by the time they were 3 if they decided to test me I usually didnt even have to take them to the steps I could just say ..okay I told you now go and sit on the steps and they did it!!!!!!!
No tears, no fuss...
They all learned quickly the boundaries and perameters of what they can and cant do ..and it was great ..

good luck.

 
At Friday, April 13, 2007 9:01:00 PM, Blogger Nikki said...

Quinn, I swear, you are a goddess among women. You have got to love kids to hang with such little ones for so long.

Here's another question for you.

Marla and Jason both live far far away from all their family, and stays at home with her son. She has recently joined a gym that has a daycare that is inclusive with the membership so she takes him with her when she works out.

The problem here is....he screams when she is gone working out.

Is there a way to ease him into being okay with being there while mommy has an hour to herself to work out?

David seems to be suffering from seperation anxiety...which I would think is a normal thing. Should she spend a little time in the room with him to help ease him a bit and them little by little spend time in the gym.

IE - go the the gym at such and such time during the day. Spend 50 minutes in the room with him playing and then 10 minutes out and then gradually increase the time away.

Do you think this would help?

She doesn't know anyone else there, none of the other moms or kids...and David has never been in a daycare environment before.

All other input from anyone would be appreciated here.

 
At Friday, April 13, 2007 10:02:00 PM, Blogger Samantha said...

People I know have sworn by the naughty step/chair.

 
At Friday, April 13, 2007 10:48:00 PM, Anonymous quinn said...

I believe that he is absolutely having separation anxiety....From his point of view... he and mommy go out of his normal surroundings AND when they reach their destination she leaves him......

18 months is typically a time of great separation anxiety and it is hard enough when it is a child that just doesn't want mommy to leave him at home with daddy ....I can seriously imagine the anxiety he is having being in a strange new place and she goes.

Personally my feeling would be if she could find more of a mom and me work out place where the toddlers and mom's do some excercises together....I realize that the intensity will not be exactly what she wants right now..but she also wants her little boy to be happy and comfortable.
If she could do something like this in a location away from home. He would be with her, get used to others, realize she can do things separate from him but still be with him and vice versa.
Then once he learns something like this for a while she would likely have much better success with introducing him to the daycare in the gym. He will have had time to realize that when he and mom go to these places mom is going to jump and bounce and stuff and it is all okay they will leave again together so might as well go to a nice room and play with kids and toys..right now though ...he wants mommy and that is a good thing.

Otherwise do to his age I would have to suggest she try other strategies for getting in shape with her child since she has no one there to help or babysit for her to go..like maybe the jogging stroller for some cardio and then hope for David takes a nap and mom can do an excercise video while he naps.

As much as I can understand her wanting this time for her to feel good about her body etc.I bet she cares more about her baby and his needs.

 
At Friday, April 13, 2007 10:55:00 PM, Anonymous quinn said...

p.s. I meant to say ..I loved doing the daycare and if my body could have kept up the pace of looking after 2 or 3 toddlers 5 days a week I would still be doing it.

Just the other day one of the little boys I was looking after last year and his daddy came to my workplace today and I hadn't seen them in months. Oh my god..I just wanted to hug all over "my boy" ...I felt like telling my co-workers okay I am done for today I have to go and play now.
I miss miss miss..the toddlers..what an absolutely fabulous age and so much fun..sure tons of work, but smiles and love and giggles ohhh I have to say I was so happy after seeing him I had a flood of memories in my head for the rest of the day....

oh...and that little guy..his birthday and mine are the same day ..so next thursday we are both having birthdays....only he will be 3 ...I will be 43..arggggggggg hahah

 
At Saturday, April 14, 2007 3:56:00 AM, Blogger ablondeblogger said...

My favorite book of all-time is The Strong-Willed Child by James Dobson. Lots of good tips in there!

 
At Saturday, April 14, 2007 9:07:00 AM, Blogger carmachu said...

Spanking and such are fine when its absolutely necessary. When sarah ran out the door and down the sidewalk....she got TWO spankings, one from daddy when he caught her, one from mommy when she got handed over. There are certain things that have to be taken care of right NOW. An thats what spanking or smacking of hands is for.

"it doesn't bother him to be sent to his room."

Thats the problem. She sends him to his ROOM. Where his toys/tv/games and other stuff are. If your going to send a kid somewhere for a time out, it has to be a neutal BORING place....one where they are not going to want to go.

 
At Saturday, April 14, 2007 9:15:00 AM, Blogger carmachu said...

I just had a stupid thought nikki.
Since you said "okay not really her son" it sparked a thought(yes yes, dont faint, I had one, its lonely)

Uhm since he acts like that when spanked or sent to his room....does the dad back her up or undercut her authority? I ask because it sounds almost like he does, which is why her punishments done work, because if daddy doesnt listen....why should he?

 
At Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:46:00 PM, Blogger Nikki said...

carm, I have no idea to be honest. I have never met my nephew and seen my brother around his son.

I do know that Jason works around 12 hours a day so when he gets home, he crams in all the time possible with David - meaning - it's play time (for about an hour or so before everyone goes to bed)...and I really can't see anything wrong with that since he missed the first year with him and they are still getting to know one another.

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong here Marla) that most of the disciplining is done by Marla since Jason is gone so much.

 
At Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:48:00 PM, Blogger Nikki said...

...and Carm....from what Marla tells me, he doesn't play with anything when he gets sent to his room. He just stands there and looks at the door until it gets opened.

Stubborn kid.

Yeah, we're related.

 
At Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:36:00 PM, Blogger Chels-Puddle Jumper said...

I have a 20 month old. When he decides not to listen or has a temper tantrum, I put him in his crib or playpen and walk away. I leave him there until he calms down. (which is never for more than 2 or 3 minutes.) I always give him a hug afterwards, and tell him why he was put in there. Not that I think he always fully understands said explanation, but it's just me getting into the habit of doing it, so when he gets older he'll be able understand it bit more.

 
At Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:32:00 AM, Blogger kim said...

You KNOW i cant say a thing, I refer to my 2 almost 3 year old as BabyTerror! Affectionately of course but still.. we have tried it ALL, and really the only thing that works is constant attention and interaction and the time out thing. We find that hes a lot worse when were stressed out, and of course when were preoccupied with working at the computer and ignoring him. A HUGE thing was getting everyone in the house ( brothers and sister and mom and dad) to react and follow the same rules for discipline, i.e not yelling at him, not ignoring him, not laughing at his bad behavior (the things that were cute when he was 18months arent cute anymore) and being CONSISTENT!! It's finally beginning to pay off in little ways, plus that hes almost 3 and hes growing out of it a little bit, but it has been a long ass year let me tell ya!

 
At Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:00:00 AM, Blogger Mr. Fabulous said...

I think it was porn. Who do you think you're talking to?

 
At Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:26:00 AM, Blogger carmachu said...

Got it. Yeah he sounds like one hard headed kid. Because most kids will NOT want to sit still....


Hmmm, maybe finding something he does like: toys, show, whatever and THAT gets the time out.

 
At Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:06:00 PM, Blogger Marymurtz said...

Since we adopted our daughter after three years of foster care, we started out knowing that spanking was not going to be an option. It was not allowed. We were both spanked as children; my husband vividly remembers the few times he was spanked because it was so rare. I just seem to remember spankings as the MILD form of physical discipline I endured.

Anyway, we couldn't spank, and since the adoption, we haven't spanked our daughter. Aside from that, 18 months is just about impossible. It's a horrible haze in my memory, but I recall time out being sporadically effective, with the more effective being to make her sit in her room or sit in the corner.

I think many kids are just babies at that age. I would say ride it out and thank God I'm not in that place any more.

 
At Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:17:00 PM, Blogger Trouble said...

Does he have a crib still? Maybe some time IN the crib, away from playthings, etc.

 
At Monday, April 16, 2007 3:38:00 PM, Blogger JennyJinx said...

I do the counting thing too. I think it's really, really important to follow through, though. Don't threaten and then give in. Kids will take advantage of that for years afterward. Then I take away a toy. Then I give her a good pop on the butt (Lil' Miss, being older, gets her phone and computer priviledges). Just enough to show I'm serious. The most important thing I've learned is to follow through when you threaten. And use the same pattern of punishment each time. It won't take kids long to figure it out.

 
At Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:40:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

HELLO ALL IT IS ME THE FAMIOUS MARLA. THANK YA'LL SOOOOOO MUCH FOR THE INPUTS. WELL MY SON IS A GOOD BOY BUT HE HAS MY TEMPER. AND I HAVE A HARD TIME CONTROLLING MINE LET ALONE HIS. IT IS HARD BUT I AM WORKING AT THAT. IT IS GETTING WORSE I AM AT MY WITS. HE IS A STUBBOURN AS I AM AND HE ALWAYS GOES FOR THE THANGS THAT COULD HURT HIM. HE IS ALSO AT THE STAGE WHEN HE WILL COME WHEN HE WANTS TO. I CAN ASK HIM NICELY TO COME TO ME BUT IT TAKES ME YELLING AT HIM TO COME. HE DOESN'T LIKE TO BE SENT TO HIS ROOM NOW HE WILL CRY AND NEVER I MEAN "NEVER" STOPS!!!!!!!!! BUT HE WANT STAY IN HIS ROOM. HIS FATHER DOES BACK ME UP WITH THE DICPLING,THANK GOD. SEE I WAS WORKING OUT AT HOME AT FIRST BUT HE IS SUCH A SOFT SLEEPER THAT WHEN I PULL OUT THE EQUIPMENT AND START TO WORK OUT HE CRIED THE WHOLE TIME. THEN I TRIED TO FIND GYMS THAT HAVE MOMMY AND BABY ACTIVITES BUT NONE OF THEM DO IT HERE. BUT IT IS GETTING TO THE POINT TO IT SEEMS I AM NOT PUNISHING HIM IT FEELS LIKE I AM BEATING HIM CAUSE NONE OF IT IS WORKING. I THOUGHT I NEW EVERYTHING EVEN HOW TO MAKE HIM LISTEN BUT I DON'T AND I AM JUST LOST. HE CAN UNDERSTAND ALOT BUT WHEN IT COMES TO HIM LISTENING TO ME HE DOESN'T ANYMORE. AND THERE ISN'T NOTHING HE IS ATTACHED TO YET OR CAN'T LIVE WITH OUT. BUT I DO THANK EVERYONE THAT HAS TAKEN AN INTEREST IN MY MATTER.

THANKS,
MARLA

 

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